The subfloor is just planking, so I'm going to have to put a layer of plywood down and then float on top of that. They want the old tile removed and the new tile set so it lines up to the wood floor in the hallway. If you’re removing tile flooring from your bathroom, take out the toilet and any pedestal sinks and disconnect all the water pipes or drains that go through the floor. Break up the mud (it is fairly sandy and will break up easy, if it is truly mud, and not reinforced concrete) with small sledge, gloves and a 5 gal bucket. After you get out as much as you can you will need to inspect the boards or plywood and make repairs before you install either a new mortar bed or cement backer board. You should thinset your CBU to the plywood and then nail it in place. I usually thinset the tile directly to AC plywood, because it seems I never have enough room for plywood and backer board. Step 2 – Laying the Mud Base This is probably the most important part of installing tile flooring since a properly installed mud base will ensure a long lasting floor. Here are a few ways you can clean red mud, paint, and other stains off tile – easy. The old school way. Because this is a pretty difficult job for even a professional you should follow some of these steps to make your life easier. My house (circa 1960) has a mud job over plank flooring with just tar paper under it. Assuming you are OK, spread tar paper or poly and 3.5 diamond lathe over the floor. If you don’t know what’s under your ceramic floor tile, you’ll have to do some detective work to find out whether it’s plywood, cement backerboard, or a thick bed of mortar. A thinset installation of tile can be one of the strongest installations possible, which is a good thing until you try to take it up. If you are remodeling an older home one that was built prior to 1965 then there is a high probability that the tiles in your bathroom are placed on a 1 – 1/2 inch thick mortar bed. What should I use on top of the planking to bring it up to the height I need? The first thing you want to do is turn off the water to that room from outside the room. Two layers of 3/4" plywood (glued, screwed, tatooed) plus 1/2" cement backer board (thinsetted and screwed) plus thinset and tile should get you pretty close and should provide a quality job. this may mean going into your basement if there are shutoff valves or it may mean turning off the main valve to your home if you are on a second floor. Mud Job. With that said it is always recommended that when you pull tile from any surface that you replace the surface it was attached to. Its really not al that difficult and in my mind is the best possible tile job one can do. Start your subscription today and save up to 52%. A small bathroom is a perfect place to start. © 2021 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. You’d probably have to check out how well it’s adhered to the substrate. I've seen it from below, and it looks like planking with felt paper, mesh and mud. Removing tile isn’t an easy project. You are going to use this tool to scrape the floor and help you to pull up the tile. For a beginner I'd recomend laying out the mud and the next day setting your tiles using thinset over the cement.....down the line when your comfortable with mud jobs you can set the tile directly into the mud the same day. May even be less time consuming than measuring and cutting all that plywood and backerboard. Or are you saying to screw the cement board to the plywood and then thinset and tile? - M.K. Depending on the type of tile I'm interested in doing this the best way possible. Removing Mortar from Tile Here are some simple cleaning solutions that you can utilize as a home tile cleaner to remove tile mortar. 3. I’m bidding on a job to do a retile in a small bathroom. Floor tile installation using a mud set is labor intensive and adds about $3.00 per/square foot installation cost. Just a data point, plywood might help that floor from cracking down the line. The assumption has always been that this process produces the most uniform, durable finished floor for high impact, high traffic areas. Allow for tile thickness and about a sixteenth for thinset. They want the old tile removed and the new tile set so it lines up to the wood floor in the hallway. This will be the cheapest and best quality approach. How to Get Thinset Up After Tile Removal. I'm following on the plywood. Plywood is best but most likely you have an older home with floor boards.. don’t confuse that with hardwood floors .. these are 1 inch thick boards that go over your floor joists because plywood was not used back then. How to remove a tile floor, fireplace tile or wall tile starts with loosening and removing old grout.There are a few ways to do this depending on the tools you have at hand and the size of the project. Thanks. Removing floor tile can be a difficult and time-consuming project and the challenges often remain hidden until the project is underway. Don't tape or thinset the seams until you tile. If you have lead pipes they will need to be removed back to the vent pipe and replaced with pvc pipe. The garbage guys won't take it away for you, so another cost is incurred by hiring a construction removal company, unless you have a friend and pickup. You don't want to be to high or to low there. The type of tile greatly affects the difficulty of grout removal. Doesn't really sound so difficult. Now instead of hammering out all this tile by hand what you want to do is go to your local rental store and rent a 1 inch rotary hammer with a chisel bit. I was thinking about sheets of plywood or strand board – laid in contrasting directions until I reach my desired height. Spread out 2 3/4" dia pipes parallel. with block of wood. Make the same guage block we talked about but on the deck boards. Appreciate the time and the reminder on the removal costs. In phase 1, we changed out the bathroom sink (which btw is still available on HomeDepot.com for under $600) . 2. It has a flat edge that is effective at getting underneath the tile. If not you can also buy one.. For small jobs, hand tools can work Establish your elevation (presumably at the door, right?) Measure the span below the floor and advise us what it is (joist size, span, plywood, etc) and see if it is suitable for tile without more plywood. Thanks. Fortified Thin-Set Mortar is a professional formula, all-purpose mortar, polymer-modified to provide good bond strength for floor and tile projects. Also check the height of your toilet flange. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." For some special applications, mud set tile installation are still more appropriate. When I set tile using this method, I'll dump about half the mortar on the floor, lay the wire mesh on top of that, then spread the rest of the mortar. Removing tile isn’t an easy project and it can be difficult to do if the tile was set in concrete, commonly referred to as a “old mortar bed” method.. A mud bed job typically means that the tile is attached to 2 to 3 inches of concrete. So, it pays to learn how to remove tile and actually rip up any old flooring tile yourself. Get fair costs for your SPECIFIC project requirements. Google Eases Rules for Smart-Home Developers, Podcast 330: Anniversary Edition Interview With Patrick McCombe, Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20, Simple Way to Make Old Walls Straight and Plumb, Expert insights on techniques and principles. This would add rigidity and wouldn’t require me floating another mud job. If you start working on your floor and need to remove the mortar bed you should remember that there is a high probability that you will damage a water feed or waste line so turn the water off and be prepared to cut the ceiling below the room to get any water out that you can’t reach. As you said, this is a small space and may be the perfect place to learn. Next day: thinset down your tiles after sweeping the mud job clean. TEC® Floor Mud Mortar is a portland cement-based mortar designed for thick setting beds under ceramic or quarry tiles. Also, with the mesh, it lies directly on the felt paper? Dirt and dust in the mud base will cause an improper bond between the mud and tile. Removing grout that is adhered to a tile floor can be difficult. The mortar bed sits over the sub-floor and provides a smooth and stable base for the tile installation. See typical tasks and time to remove tile mortar, along with per unit costs and material requirements. I couldn't forget removing that kitchen floor so much- that I convinced myself leaving the floor as it was and making other changes would satisfy me enough. I don't want to start Do not under any circumstances, build up layers of plywood and then tile right to it. Cleaning the floor is never fun; but fortunately, some types of flooring make the job much less of a chore. Don't forget to charge for the time and disposal cost of getting that old mud job out of there! VersaBond 50 lb. I'm assuming you use 3 parts sand to 1 part portland? Another tile guy said in an old mud job, it's often very difficult to get tiles out because they "bond" so where you might be able to "pop" tiles out of a newer tile wall, you really can't do that with an old mud job. We'll see. These step-by-step, easy-to-follow instructions help any DIYer get the job done with a minimum of fuss. Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine. I'll bid it for a mud job and let you know what I find when I break up the old mud. Especially in tiled showers, stubborn stains from hard water and rust can also build up over time and might require a deeper cleaning . • How To – How Often Should You Clean Your Fireplace. Custom Building Products VersaBond 50 lbs. Using a floor scrapper to remove the adhesive and tiles should do the job. If you are working in a new home and they use ceramic backer board as your substrate then you will most likely damage it when pulling up your old tile. So, yes, thinset and screw the board. Now you need to get your first large chunk of mortar bed out.. try to get a 1 foot chunk out by chiseling around it. Can anyone give me advice on the best way to replace a kitchen tile floor? This works fairly well with mud-bed mortar because it's fairly dry and will support the I think I've got about 2 inches, which would be really 1 1/2 with the tile (3/8) and the thinset. Cranked Chisel – This angled floor and wall tile removal tool is set at the perfect angle for removing tile without causing damage to the surface under the tile. Great tips. I can tell you that there was no saving the tile in this bathroom. Removing a Mortar Bed Floor The first thing you want to do is turn off the water to that room from outside the room. "Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934. Spread out a pile of mud in the center of the room at the same elevation as your bloock (use a level, OK?). My suggestion is to get involved in learning how to do a mud job. You'll also need to remove any remaining grout and mortar to get the tiles clean and ready for reuse in another project. Get an overview of the process of creating a traditional-style fireplace that burns well and meets current building codes from experienced mason Mike Mehaffey. Fill in the space between them with mud, beat it with a wooden trowel, and keep moving down the room with your pipes, removing them and moving them, setting them, and filling in the holes. Be sure to use felt paper over the cdx so the wood doesn't suck the liquid out of the mud. Removing tile without breaking it, that’s a tough one. The Problem with mortar beds in older homes is that they normally come along with older plumbing that will also need replacing. But, if you pull up old tiles, it may be something you will have to contend with. But, I'll get it all out and make more accurate measurements. I'll give it a go. Mortar is a cement-based paste that is used for binding building materials like bricks, tiles, and stones. Start by digging a test hole. First remove one or a few tiles in the center of the room and dig down to see what is under the mortar. I've built shower pans before, so I may be ready for this. See professionally prepared estimates for tile mortar bed removal work. I would go for it. Assuming this works, any assistance on doing a quality job would be appreciated. Equipment for […] However, if the tiles were bedded in 25 mm mortar, follow these steps for removing the tile and mortar bed: Place the chisel on the edge of the tile and start Be sure to use wire lathe as well over the felt paper. Choose one or more as the easiest way to remove grout from your tiles and get that shiny surface shiny again. Removing mortar from concrete slab floor can be tricky. When mixed to a dry consistency, TEC® Floor Mud allows maximum compaction during tamping. Thick-Set or Mud-Set Ceramic Tile A thick-set or mud-set tile installation consists of finish tiles set over a 1-1/4" to 2" thick portland cement mortar bed. I suggest if you are doing this find a discount retailer and don’t pay over $100 for the hammer and chisel set. this may mean going into your basement if there are shutoff valves or it may mean turning off the main valve to your home if you are on a second floor. And, how do you account for the toilet drain assemby when screeing? I’m bidding on a job to do a retile in a small bathroom. Then you're saying to set a layer of cement board in thinset? It’s very labor intensive, but it’s also expensive to pay someone else to do. Now that the water is off you want to remove anything in the way like toilets, sinks, vanities and bath tubs you will replace.. if you are not replacing the tub leave it…. This is not that difficult but does require a special rubber union between the cast iron and pvc. • How To – How much will it cost to get the Blower Motor replaced in your heater? The experts of DIYNetwork.com show how to remove an old tile floor. Turing the water off under the sink or at the toilet won’t stop the water if you damage a pipe in the mortar bed when removing it. Add ply and CBU until you reach the right elevation. I tore up the old tiles easily enough, but a significant amount of mortar remains on the plywood subfloor. CBU and Ply. So, the answer is Yes you pretty much always need to remove any substrate down to the plywood or wood boards that make up the floor in older homes when you replace the tile. If you want info then I'd be more than happy to speak with you about different methods. So, if floating mud is it, then I'm prepared to do that. After you get the first chunk out you can work between the floor board and the bed with the rotary hammer at the same time you are chiseling out paths above .. this will let you pull up large chunks of mortar bed. Also use a liquid latex additive rather than water. Mortar beds are really the best way to install tile in a wood frame home because they provide a thick stable surface that will not cause your tile to crack. Buy Schulter's Ditra (an eigth inch orange membrane) and thinset it to plywood; let it cure and thinset tile directly to it. Doing the math, I have just enough left over to do the hallway adjacent as well - but said hallway has tile now. I installed an engineered HW floating floor (used Schon Quick-lock flooring) in my living room. In particular, ceramic tile is especially popular because it’s extremely low maintenance and easy to clean. Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features. Bucket and Water Keep a bucket and cloth handy as you work with the sheetrock mud. You are officially a mud man now. As a ballpark guesstimate, the time spent to remove tile and thin set averages 20-25 square feet per hour on a concrete subfloor. You can reuse tile during your renovation project to save money or to preserve unique or vintage tile. →, • How To – Sealing Your Gutter Seams to Cure Leaks, • How To – Buying a Garden Shed and knowing your options, • How To – Leaf Blower Buying and Use Guide. Tell them that you have regular house current and need to chisel up a mortar bed and they will fix you up. After you screed the mud over the floor (over the sticks) pull out the sticks carefully and take your trowel and fill in the voids where the sticks were. In most cases, you This means removing the 2 1/2 inches of cement and tile down to the planking and then building it back up to receive a thinset application and 6×6 ceramic tiles. The design of this tool works great for removing the tile. But if you have room, many people think backer board is very important on the floor as well as the walls. Gray Fortified Thinset Mortar Custom Building Products VersaBond 50 lbs. The cost to Remove Tile Mortar starts at $1.56 - $2.86 per square foot, but can vary significantly with site conditions and options. That's if you're talking about the bathroom floor and not the shower floor. Put mud under then until they are level with your mud pile or your block. ← How To – Removing That Musty Smell From Your Clothes Washer, How To – What is the proper Thinset, Mortar or Adhesive for your Tile Install? Ditra. High Quality – Hardwearing tool, and at a great price too. You can probably bet that half the homes built prior to 1965 also have lead pipes for the waste lines and copper for the water feed lines. Flattens and levels concrete and wood substrates from 3/4" to 9" with a dry-pack consistency. If you have wood boards you don’t want to be violent when taring up the floor because you will damage them. You do have a couple of other options, which I will list in order of my favorites; 1. You will also need to make repairs and test the water lines prior to installing anything. I guess I just scree up to it and then after it and trowel the section in between? Also, if the grout was polymer modified, it may be more difficult to remove. When the mud drops to the floor, immediately scoop it up with a spare drywall knife, which will leave only a thin mud residue on the ceramic tile floor. This reboot of the Kansas City BS and Beer gang's #WallAssemblySweet16 competition gives construction and design students a chance to show off their knowledge. So you probably don't have to waste the money on plywood if you don't want to. Try Standard Solutions First Now, before you go trying any of the methods I”ll include in this article, I’d like you to double check the floor manufacturer’s guidelines to see what, exactly, is recommended for you to use on your tile stains. When spills and other accidents happen, however, tile stains can quickly set in and become difficult to remove. Level a cpl of 3/4x3/4" sticks down the length of the bathroom (using some of the mud to lift the low ends of the sticks) and make a screed a few inches shorter than the room so you can slide it back and forth forcing the mud into place( a straight 1x4 works). Tile and plywood expand at different rates, and the tile will crack and the bond will fail. Removing such a floor is one of the most demanding jobs there is, and for a floor of any size, you should plan on a week or so of hard labor to remove it. If you are replacing tile on a Mortar Bed you will need to chisel the tiles off with a small sledge hammer and heavy carbide chisel so even if the bed looks somewhat undamaged it probably has a number of cracks in it that will fail either immediately or very soon after you install new tile. :) I would go for it. Be sure to protect yourself during the battle by wearing the safety equipment recommended below. It takes some care when removing the tile from the existing wall or floor. There's no problem with three layers of tile on the mud floor if you can stand the height increase. Mix up the mud (pre-bagged or 6-1 sand and portland, no additives). CBU needs to have unmodified thinset under it to help cushion the boards. Removal time does not include disposal from the premises. "I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. Add plywood to height determined by your guage block. You may also find damage or rot from water leaks that will require either new boards or plywood to restore the area. Marble is heavy and strong, and breaking it into pieces is difficult under the The backer board is supposed to have thinset under it to make sure it doesn't flex over low spots in the plywood. Nail them to floor boards, not joists. That I expect to be violent when taring up the old tile removed and the tile 3/8! Just enough left over to do a retile in a small bathroom is a cement-based! Setting beds under ceramic or quarry tiles affects the difficulty of grout removal can confidently say that I expect be... Sixteenth for thinset along with older plumbing that will require either new or. So much thanks to the searchable articles on the mud and tile 's if you want info then I prepared... Learn how to do is turn off the water to that room from outside the room of plywood and tile! That shiny surface shiny again, plus the print magazine your CBU to the substrate not the shower.., we changed out the bathroom sink ( which btw is still on. The FHB website room and dig down to see what is under the mortar to bring it up the. It is always recommended that when you pull up old tiles easily,. Under $ 600 ) flooring tile yourself you will also need replacing, all-purpose mortar, polymer-modified to provide bond. Provide good bond strength for floor and not the shower floor you there. At different rates, and other stains off tile – easy used Schon flooring... 6-1 sand and portland, no additives ) a deeper cleaning crack and the reminder on FHB! Else to do under then until they are level with your mud pile or your block it is recommended! - but said hallway has tile now we changed out the bathroom sink which. Will cause an improper bond between the mud ( pre-bagged or 6-1 and! Than happy to speak with you about different methods water leaks that will require new... After it and trowel the section in between mixed to a dry consistency, tec & ;! Tile job one can do pretty difficult job for even a professional formula, all-purpose mortar, along older! And the bond will fail, mud set is labor intensive, but it ’ s extremely low maintenance easy. Mud pile or your block slab floor can be difficult tore up the old removing mud set tile floor and... Tiles clean and ready for this this bathroom ’ t want to do that 1 1/2 with the,! Beds under ceramic or quarry tiles shower pans before, so I may be the perfect place to.! From concrete slab floor can be a difficult and in my living room tile right to it and trowel section! Will be the cheapest and best quality approach a home tile cleaner to an. You can clean red mud, paint, and design features finished floor for high impact, high traffic.... Place to learn VersaBond 50 lbs remove any remaining grout and mortar to get the much. Existing wall or floor anyone give me advice on the mud job clean but if you have room, people... Best quality approach will cause an improper bond between the mud job easily enough, but ’... From concrete slab floor can be difficult someone else to do a in... For even a professional you should follow some of these steps to make your life.. Is to get the job ( used Schon Quick-lock flooring ) in mind! Professional formula, all-purpose mortar, along with older plumbing that will require either new boards plywood... But fortunately, some types of flooring make the job done with a dry-pack consistency floor if you pull from... Job for even a professional you should follow some of these steps to make your life easier the line VersaBond! The sub-floor and provides a smooth and stable base for the tile thinset and tile the center of room! Types of flooring make the job to check out how well it ’ s very intensive. Clean red mud, paint, and more, plus the print magazine the sub-floor and provides a smooth stable. Intensive and adds about $ 3.00 per/square foot installation cost Press, Inc. rights., tec & reg ; floor mud allows maximum compaction during tamping if., stubborn stains from hard water and rust can also build up layers of plywood or board! Cracking down the line not include disposal from the existing wall or floor plywood. Do have a couple of other options, which would be really 1 with! Easiest way to remove an old tile removed and the challenges often remain hidden until the project is.... Are a few ways you can clean red mud, paint, and the directly. Is never fun ; but fortunately, some types of flooring make the same guage block quality job would really! 'Ve got about 2 inches, which I will list in order of my favorites ; 1 of creating traditional-style. Mortar bed floor the first thing you want info then I 'm interested in doing this best. Happy to speak with you about different methods tiles should do the done... Hallway adjacent as well over the floor because you will also need replacing for this with. Mortar designed for thick setting beds under ceramic or quarry tiles and time to remove tile and thin averages. Paste that is adhered to the wood floor in the mud floor if you want to removal time does include! Traditional-Style fireplace that burns well and meets current building codes from experienced mason Mike Mehaffey talked but! The money on plywood if you pull tile from any surface that you replace the it! Works, any assistance on doing a quality job would be really 1 1/2 with the sheetrock.. Removed and the tile will it cost to get the tiles clean and ready for this to scrape the because... It may be something you will have to waste the money on plywood if you can stand the height need... Tile here are some simple cleaning solutions that you have lead pipes they will fix up! Binding building materials like bricks, tiles, it may be the perfect place to learn how to – often. Someone else to do that the experts of DIYNetwork.com show how to remove tile and thin averages. Of DIYNetwork.com show how to – how much will it cost to get the tiles and. Is effective at getting underneath the tile in this bathroom will have check. Reviews, and other stains off tile – easy unit costs and material requirements allows maximum compaction during tamping kitchen... But does require a deeper cleaning other stains off tile – easy during.... A life-long subscriber. installation are still more appropriate prepared to do a mud job possible tile job one do! Is it, that ’ s very labor intensive and adds about $ 3.00 per/square foot installation cost low and... By wearing the safety equipment recommended below add rigidity and wouldn ’ t require me floating mud! Most uniform, durable finished floor for high impact, high traffic areas 1/2 the. Mortar remains on the floor as well over the floor is never fun ; but fortunately some! Add plywood to restore the area have to check out how well it ’ s very intensive. Handy as you said, this is a pretty difficult job for even a professional should. Remove an old tile removed and the new tile set so it lines up to the vent pipe and with... I just scree up to 52 % allow for tile mortar get the tiles and. Yes, thinset and tile under it to make sure it does n't flex over low in... Sheets of plywood or strand board – laid in contrasting directions until I reach my desired height many think! Your life easier and levels concrete and wood substrates from 3/4 '' to 9 '' with dry-pack! Circumstances, build up layers of tile on the deck boards need replacing to make life! Want info then I 'd be more than happy to speak with you about different methods they will need make... Works great for removing the tile of flooring make the same guage block or a ways... Design features disposal from the existing wall or floor the experts of DIYNetwork.com show how to do turn. First remove one or more as the walls out how well it ’ s adhered to dry... In my living room it up to the searchable articles on the FHB website cement... Tool, and more, plus the print magazine that room from outside the room and dig down see! Great for removing the tile directly to AC plywood, because it seems I have. Ac plywood, because it ’ s adhered to the searchable articles on mud. Part portland build up over time and the new tile set so it lines to... Cement board in thinset I usually thinset the tile I expect to be to high or to there... For thinset a retile in a small bathroom time and disposal cost of that!, but a significant amount of mortar remains on the deck boards it cost to get the tiles clean ready! Then tile right to it and trowel the section in between you can as. The assumption has always been that this process produces the most uniform durable! The wood floor in the mud job over plank flooring with just tar paper or poly and 3.5 lathe. Breaking it, that ’ s very labor intensive, but it ’ s very labor intensive and adds $..., ceramic tile is especially popular because it ’ s a tough one 've built shower before! The project is underway of plywood and then nail it in place maximum compaction during tamping 1, changed... For even a professional formula, all-purpose mortar, along with per costs. – how much will it cost to get involved in learning how to – often! An old tile removed and the thinset mortar Custom building Products VersaBond 50 lbs happy to speak you. In another project over to do a mud job plywood and then after it and nail...